Nick Berry: Leadership, Intentionality, and the Power of Personal Agency

Full Episode Page: Nick Berry: Leadership, Intentionality, and the Power of Personal Agency

Episode Summary: In this special episode of The Business Owner’s Journey, Nick Berry is interviewed by his wife, Kelly Berry, host of Life Intended. They dive into Nick's entrepreneurial journey from a small-town farm to becoming a successful CEO and mentor. Nick shares his views on leadership, the importance of personal agency, and how intentionality shapes his approach to both business and life. If you're looking for practical strategies to enhance your leadership skills and mindset, this episode is packed with valuable insights.

Takeaways:

• Intentional Leadership: Leadership requires preparation and setting clear intentions to be effective in every interaction.
• Personal Agency: Embrace your ability to control your circumstances and actively work to change them.
• Resilience Through Challenges: Engaging in challenging tasks builds the discipline and resilience needed for success.
• Maximizing Time and Energy: Eliminate small points of friction to focus on high-value tasks that matter.

Links:

• Kelly Berry's Official Website
• The Life Intended Podcast
• Kelly on Instagram
• Kelly on LinkedIn
• Life Intended on Instagram
• Dana Farber, Moonstone Marketing, tBOJ Episode: Mindful Marketing for Visionary Leaders and Brands
• Leadership Opportunities and Intentions

The Business Owner's Journey podcast is where entrepreneurs, leaders, and innovators to share their personal stories, challenges, leadership, and strategies from their own journeys as business owners.

Subscribe to the Business Owner's Journey newsletter for episode notifications and exclusive guest content!

🟢 Official: NickBerry.info
🟢 tBOJ is hosted by Nick Berry and produced by Nick Berry, Kelly Berry & FCG.
🟢 Series Sponsors: SEOContentSurge, FR, Entrepreneur's Edge

➕ Go here to have Nick as a guest on your podcast
➕ Interested in sponsoring or appearing on tBOJ as a guest: Contact us here
➕ Learn more about Nick Berry

Transcript

Nick (00:00)
you've got leadership on your mind, then this episode is a must listen for you. This is one of the most enjoyable, one of my favorite conversations that I've had since I've gotten into podcasting. And it was actually my appearing on my wife's podcast, Life Intended, where she had me come on and talk about my perspective on leadership, my background as an entrepreneur.

And we got to talk about some aspects of leadership that I think don't get enough attention and I have some stronger opinions on. And so this was just a very enjoyable conversation for me. I love that we got a chance to talk about this stuff. It was really well received. So I wanted to make sure that I also shared it with you guys. So let me know what you think.

Nick (00:42)
So spent the first 17 years of my life. I grew up on a dairy farm in

to a small college in Kentucky, made it through all of that academically at least. It barely got through, got out of in 2001, a job. I was a personal trainer I think maybe six months, which,

I always say this kind of as a joke, but it's not a joke. Six months and five months, so that it was five months too I was not very good at my job and I was really not cut out to be an employee. So that's where everything took this so I knew I was going to have to find a way to go into business on my own.

figure something out. I hadn't really thought about it. Definitely hadn't planned it very well or at all up till that But that's when I kind of got into, I'm gonna make my own path here.

So the first few businesses that I had, the Smoothie Bar Pro Shops, they kind of floundered around. By the time that I got into the personal training and gym businesses, we figured out a few of the levers to pull to start to make some money and started to share some of those practices with other people who did similar things to what we were trying to build similar businesses, got some notoriety for that.

All of a sudden people are coming in and saying, hey, I'll pay you to teach me how to do that. So then a consultant and things kind of took off from there. And then it was starting to create information product based businesses consulting kind of built out this portfolio of businesses

grew that up I think the most that we ever had at one operating businesses. I think our staff, we got up to maybe 45 at that time, you know, we started to get more made the Inc. 5 ,000 several years. We're on the entrepreneurs franchise 500 list for several years. One.

places to work awards. and I mentioned that you know, the award stuff is neat, but we were, we were getting, being recognized for growth, for client satisfaction and culture, sorry, at the same time. And I think that's unusual. So, you know, to me, that was kind of a know, we're doing something different here. Like this is.

Kelly Berry (03:24)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (03:28)
This is a neat into franchising. We had two franchise systems at one time. And at a certain point after a few switched that over into licensing, which is technically what we still do with Business through our business coaching programs.

What have I left

Kelly Berry (03:50)
what you said about doing those three things, had kind of of, I would say principles that you running the businesses by. You wanted to be best place to do business with. You wanted to be the best place for people to work and you wanted...

There was one other I'm blanking on right now, but it was like, that was your intention with the business. So to be able recognized for that, I think was just like validation were doing those things well.

Nick (04:22)
Yeah, we had the three wins. Remember? So instead of it being like win -win for us and clients, it was always three wins. It would be us and a client and either like there's always a third party, right? It was either their client or another partner or affiliate of ours. There's always somebody involved where we just try to make sure that we have the whole is always going to be greater than the sum of the parts. If you think about it that way and,

Kelly Berry (04:24)
Mm -hmm.

No, I'm not.

Nick (04:51)
approach it with that intent.

Kelly Berry (04:53)
So, you know, intention is the theme of the podcast. I think it's something that you do really well. So if we can just kind of from here, let's go back a little bit and talk about, you know, you mentioned straight out of college and you were young when you started businesses and then you built this organization. And I think by the time you were on, you know, Inc 5000 lists, you

Nick (05:11)
Ahem.

Kelly Berry (05:18)
late 20s, early 30s. So talk how you were able to go from this person who decided they weren't a good employee to this, you know, business owner that was doing big things.

Nick (05:33)
Yeah. in hindsight, it looks like a total know, maybe it feels like you know, you don't know what you don't know. And I was kind of aware of that, I didn't really recognize the magnitude of what I didn't know. Like we didn't know shit. sorry. And, but, and we kind of knew that, but it,

Kelly Berry (05:54)
Thank you.

Nick (05:58)
It was like ignorance is bliss. But what we do know is how to create this result for this client and how to sell them into that idea. That's all it took to get started. And then the rest was, okay, we're going to figure it out from there. And, something that I feel like I was, I've always been fortunate.

Kelly Berry (06:09)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Nick (06:22)
like some of the people that I've been able to the been like had chapters in my story or whatever from like, you know, being as a child, I'm one of those few people who actually had a lot more good coaches than bad coaches growing up. Like, you know, I don't know many people who can say that, but I did. And so there are, you know, a few people that I mean, you being one of them played a role

trajectory, you know, it's like, we didn't know much, but the things we did know we could produce with. And that's what it took to get started. So we just went after it. And when you're, you know, in your mid and late twenties, you probably have less to lose, or at least you think that. And so we just, we find problems that we could solve and we'd solve them for people and we charge them money for it.

Kelly Berry (07:01)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (07:19)
And then as that started to pick up momentum, it's like, okay, well, now we need more people on our team. So how do you do that? So we'd have to go and learn. How do I actually hire somebody? How do I handle payroll? do the grownups do this when they're trying to build a business? So things like that, you can figure out. Well.

We figured it out as we went.

Kelly Berry (07:51)
So, two things there I'd like to dig into a little bit You've always just really had will say value something in you that finds a part of a team really, really the degree that you know, you've invested a lot of what you've done over the years has been geared towards building a team and.

and getting that team to produce results. So where does that come from? And why do you think that's so important?

Nick (08:22)
Well, so why I think it's important the saying, if you want to go, what is it? If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. And I like, there are a lot of like cliche and things that you can say, but like, I truly believe you can just do a lot more if you've got more of the right kind of minds together. So I know,

whenever I've been at my best, it's been because I was surrounded by the right kind of, the right minds, the right people. yeah, it's it just works for me. And I think that it can work, would work that way for just about anybody if they truly believed that and committed themselves to making it that way. Why I'm that way? I'm not.

I don't know for sure, but there, I mean, the majority of my life growing up, I was in like, it was basically two environments where it was pretty important that you were able to work together with people. And the more you're able to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts, the higher the likelihood of success, whatever that looked like growing up on the farm and like playing sports, baseball. And

could come, I can look back and I can come up with a lot of it. I mean,

all day with farming Like it's just full of examples of where why teamwork is important. I don't know if I was aware of those things at the and I don't know if that's why these things like continue to be so important to it has been ingrained in me. So, I mean, I sure that has had something to do with it.

Kelly Berry (10:06)
Mm I think.

Nick (10:07)
I don't remember anybody ever setting me down when I was young and saying like, hey, we're going to all work together. And if you'll do that for the rest of your life, like you'll get further with people. And as an adult, I've had a lot more evidence where that did not go that way I did growing up. Right. I don't really know.

Kelly Berry (10:16)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Nick (10:32)
I don't know why it's so deeply ingrained, but it is and I like it. I believe in it.

Kelly Berry (10:37)
Mm -hmm. So I guess to add a little bit to the story and so everybody listening Nick and I have been married. We just celebrated our 17th wedding anniversary. So we've been together a little bit more than 18 years. So of his two decades of experience, I have been in the picture for most of that. And then 11 years ago, I started working with Nick. So.

I've had, when I said it, I've had a front row seat, I really have. So I've been part of this team and been a part of the culture and the business for a long And thing I want to talk about next is like the leader that Nick is, because I think in order to have a good team, you have to have a good leader. You have to have a good coach. You have to have somebody who can put all the right pieces in place. And they're also like looking forward to see.

what's coming and I've really never been around anybody who I think can do that like Nick can do it. So Nick, I would like for you to talk a little bit about like how you have approached your development as a leader. And I know that's a very broad question. guess just talk about what being a leader means to you. And then we can talk of the ways that you go about developing

who sees leadership as like this ongoing thing that you're always developing.

Nick (12:05)
well at this point in my life, I think I look at leadership you know, it's kind of, it's my role in the room, whatever that might.

A lot of times in the business context, I'm the decision maker. so I want to be good at that. That's a heart. I don't think you can just wake up, fall out of bed, accidentally be a good decision maker as a business owner. I think it's a thing that needs to be worked on. And when you think about...

that if you haven't been taught that or mentored or coached on it, then it's a unique angle to look at it I think, so now, leadership to me is more about the thought that perspective. 10 years ago, I probably would have described it more in terms of the actions.

10 years before that, I don't have any idea how I would have described I think are probably some things that I've done intuitively. I feel like they're intuitive as an adult that I'm.

that I owe seeing leadership firsthand as I was growing up. I think, you know, my demonstrate some like good leadership characteristics that have stuck with me. And then I mentioned the coaches that I had that just gotten to see firsthand. Like, you know, this is how you can be like this, or you can be like a lot of other ways. You have a choice to make. Which one do you want to aspire to be? Right?

So I had some good examples around me that I could choose from to kind of like create my aspirational vision for myself.

Kelly Berry (13:54)
Okay, so when you, I'd like to talk then about like the more recent and how thought process as a leader, because I think that's where there's just like a lot of things to share that people can take and, become aware of how they approach things and maybe even use some of the exercises that you've created just.

actual things that you do to kind of improve how they lead or even approach leadership. there's a few things that I know that you do and then you can add any of the others. one thing is like, you're always thinking about like your opportunities and intentions you talk about that a lot. So can you explain what that is and how you do it?

Nick (14:42)
So opportunities and intentions. something taught me that and I'm not even sure if he meant to teach it to me the way that I use the way that I've learned to like coach other people. you're so opportunities intentions is.

Like as a leader, so, and primarily I'm talking, I usually am talking to people in the context of like they're running a business. And so like, well, what kind of leader do you want to be? You know, we've talked about that. And then like, how are we going to bring that to on a bigger scale, but then also like on a day -to -day basis. And so opportunities and intentions is more of like the smaller scale type of exercise,

You know, you start your week out, kind of forecast, look at like what's ahead of it doesn't have to be a week, but that's an easy place to start. And like, you know, what are the, what opportunities are you going to have in the, in this short period of time to demonstrate or behave as a leader that you want to be? And how are you going to like, what are your intentions in that period or in that opportunity?

So you can start to prepare yourself for it. So you can think about it in advance. And because I think there's a lot of power in being aware of like, well, this is what I, this is how I want to be. And so with opportunities and intentions, let's say that you're, maybe you have a staff coming up this week. You have a one -on -one with a staff member who maybe has been like struggling with a challenge or you've been struggling with them.

Maybe you have a client or a prospect meeting, but it could be anything. It could be a presentation. It could be just networking. It really doesn't matter what it is. The point is you identify like, well, what am I seeing as an opportunity here? And how do I want to show up as a and start to prepare yourself for that? So if I'm thinking about doing a presentation at one of our conferences,

then I know I need to think about being a certain That's pretty different from if I know I'm gonna have a conversation with a staff member who has really been struggling or I've been struggling with So I've got to get mentally prepared for either of those scenarios. And it's doesn't take near as much work.

Kelly Berry (17:03)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Nick (17:15)
when you're in the moment, if you've thought about it in advance. And it doesn't mean you're gonna be perfect. It just means you're able to go into that and be I didn't feel this way before I started using this now if I don't use the tool, I can tend to feel aimless or like accidental, like I'm just rolling the dice, right? And so it's,

Kelly Berry (17:18)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Nick (17:41)
it's kind of empowered me to be able to like manage myself better and prepare for those situations. And I think I probably handle situations good most of the time, even if I'm not But this has let me grow from one situation to the next much faster than I ever would have before.

Kelly Berry (17:48)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah. So how do you think when you coach a business owner on this, what parts of this do you think that they struggle the most?

Nick (18:17)
Probably the hardest part for them at first is seeing this as their job.

Kelly Berry (18:23)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (18:25)
most of the time, particularly in smaller businesses, they, you know, production work is the job, you know, when we've talked a lot, you and I about them feeling like they can't do their job because they have to manage people when managing people really is the job. So it's getting business owner bought in to the idea that like,

Being a leader is your And the way that you think about leading is one of the most important elements of you know, it's, it's if they're kind of predisposed to it, it's not that hard to get them to their attention to it. But if, if it doesn't click pretty quick, it's very hard. Very hard. It's like they weren't, it's, it's a foreign concept.

Kelly Berry (19:12)
Yeah.

I know I'll just like speak to this personally because I know I've struggled with this and you and I have had conversations about this. You know, it feels like a whole nother thing and it feels like it takes up a lot of space and you struggle to feel like you have enough bandwidth to like add this to your plate. You know, it's like I'm thinking about so many things. Like I don't have time to think about add this other thing that takes, you know, like

Especially at first, just not easy thought processes when you're trying to just think about like who's gonna be there? How do I want to be? How do I want them to see me? How do I you know, what are they gonna be thinking about? It is complex. Yeah, and so, you know, I know for me that I always struggled with just feeling like I don't have enough time and bandwidth and space, you know, not only am I thinking about like...

Nick (19:55)
It's complex, right? There's a lot.

Kelly Berry (20:08)
all the bazillion things we have going on at work. But when I'm not thinking about those, I'm trying to think about all the bazillion things I have going on at home and all that stuff. But the thing that I have learned over the when you do this and when you're consistent and as you develop and get better at it, like it frees up more space because you have less of the other stuff that just fills your mind and your thoughts that are just so much more reactionary. Yeah.

Nick (20:34)
Right. And you get faster with it. It takes less energy to come up with, to set your intentions. It's habitual. And I think, you know, so it's hard at first. It's a hard, it's a challenging thing to get your head around because of the complexity, but with good coaching, like that should make it much easier. And, you know, so you laid out, I think like a pretty good thought process there. It's like, okay, I've got to think about who is in this scenario.

Kelly Berry (20:42)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (21:04)
What's the impression that I'm trying to make? How am I going to go about doing that? And that can seem like a lot of things, but really, if we go all the way through that thought process at the end of we're not really trying to script out something, right? We're really trying to get you to where you can say, okay, Kelly, you're just going to go in there, more relaxed, make sure you're present, communicate well. Like,

Kelly Berry (21:19)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (21:31)
You know the most important thing for this person is they want to be heard. Make sure that you go in there and you're listening. And that's not all that complex, right? You know how to do that. It's just the process that we walk through to get there, to make sure that you are intentional in the right way is it takes a little bit of learning, but like anything. You can overthink it if you choose to, but if you can kind of like drop,

the rigor and think we don't have to script out every moment, every breath. We're just trying to go in there with a strategy and it can be a pretty simple strategy.

Kelly Berry (22:10)
Yeah, yeah, it can. For all us that are over thinkers, sometimes it just takes a lot of reps to get there. But at the end of the day, you know, I use this all the time now. And, you know, I think about, I have a networking coffee. How do I want to be, how do I want to be seen? And it's just so much more like natural. Like how do I want people to feel when they come? How do I want people to reflect upon their experience? You know, what do I want this?

thing to be and then, you know, I'm like, I can think through it on the drive there and I get there

Nick (22:45)
And it probably, and you don't even, it doesn't cross your mind in that way during the event, right? It's like, you've gone into the mode now, you know how to be that way. And I think that's just a really powerful. So we talked about it in, in this like smaller term, like lower altitude context, but that's a really powerful thing for your development overall. Like, I think, you know, you need to be thinking about how you want to be in the future. Like what's the you in the future.

Kelly Berry (22:48)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Nick (23:15)
gonna say, what would they say to the you right now? Are they gonna be happy with you about something? Are they gonna thank you for something? Like that's one of the filters that I think is really good to run things through when you're making decisions or, you know, just planning out your direction. what am I trying to become? How do I wanna

Kelly Berry (23:19)
Mm -hmm.

Mm So this seems like a good place to transition and talk about something else that you introduced me to in a deeper way than I was aware of it before, but the concept of agency and how important that is to you and how important that really is

as people have big goals and big dreams and want to do big things. So talk about your perspective on agency and that applies to your life lives of business

Nick (24:22)
so a sense of agency is, know, somebody's belief that they have control over their circumstances that they can, you can take action and it will, and, and affect the situation you're for things to happen to

And so, really made this such a, a focal point in my, in the, working on myself, but also talking to other leaders growth is amount of energy that can be drained from if depending on people who, with a low sense of agency.

maybe a better way to say it even is like, if you're not calibrated well with the other people who you're involved maybe if you're a dictator, you may be just fine with a room full of low agency people. But that doesn't make a team for me, right? So if I have a team of people who are...

Kelly Berry (25:20)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (25:25)
essentially victims of circumstance. Like, that's not a very good team for me. That's, that's, it's draining. And so, it goes really hand in hand with the, with the growth mindset. It's like that. I know it's important for me to create a support system around like the right kind of support system

elevate and help me reach potential rather than like having mindset sense of agency. Like those are the ingredients that.

create that type of environment for me.

because

do believe that you have control over your situation. I believe you're responsible for your situation. I when I was really young, you don't have to sit there and wait for somebody to come and make it different for you. If you don't like to work changing did not always like to hear that.

And probably still there are times where I don't really want to be told that, but I think it's good for me to have to look in the mirror and like, that's kind of my being accountable, right? Like I'm the one who's responsible responsible. You know, even if it's not my fault, it's my problem. So I've got to, if I don't like it, I've got to make it different.

Kelly Berry (26:49)
Yeah. I think, you know, when I've been talking about this podcast and the reason I want to do it, you know, this concept right here is something that is the driver for it. I think it's so important for people to like stop and recognize, like, are they sitting around a victim to their circumstances or are they trying to figure out how to change their situation?

And I think until you stop and reflect on that, you may not even realize which of those camps that you're in. You may have come from a family or circumstances where, you know, like everything just happens to you. Like you always have bad luck, you know, you just one thing after another, or you could have come from a family who just teaches you that kind of like what you're saying, like you don't like

you're totally in control of making your situation different. And until you stop, think about, realize, and realize what that means to you to have that personal agency or to have that empowerment, kind of can feel really stuck or just really like, just unable to get out of your situation or unable to really live a different life than maybe the one that you're currently living in.

The reality is that's just not true.

Nick (28:08)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah. And if you think about, so when we talk about your control of a situation versus being a victim, you know, this is, I don't look at this, it's not like a Tony Robbins, like you can, you can do it kind of thing. If you, I think what are the three Rs high agency? It's like the characteristics of someone who's high agency, it's resilience and resourcefulness is it reliability, something like that. But like,

Kelly Berry (28:36)
Yeah, I don't ne - remember.

Nick (28:37)
Think about are characteristics of people you just They're just good to be around. So, you know, it's not, and that's not a Tony Robbins, or a cheerleader, or like this overly trying to convince yourself that everything's happy. It's not that at all. It's like, you have control and you're resilient.

Kelly Berry (28:41)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Nick (29:02)
when you're resourceful, when you like look around and okay, well, if this door, so another one of the characteristics of agency now that we're talking about it is when you are told something can't be done, is that a dead end or is that more of a challenge? Like, really? Like how, well then what can I do?

Kelly Berry (29:20)
Mm -hmm.

I love that. And I love, I know you've written a blog post on it that's really good too. And it has, you know, I think is really powerful that you used with And I think it's probably a popular image that people have seen, but it's somebody stuck on a desert island and there's a palm tree and in one...

of the images, the person uses the parts that are on the beach or whatever to spell out help. And the other one, he uses all those same parts to like build a boat so he save himself. And I think that that's just such a good illustration of what it means to be low agency and waiting on somebody to come and save you versus high agency and realizing that you're the one that's going to it. So yeah.

I think, says a lot about you how you've gotten to where you are, because I think, you know, you've always even before you connected all the dots, just always been really high agency and never responded well to like the victim mentality that some have or, you know, come across like a lot of excuse and, you know, it's just really shaped

when you're talking about this team, like who you want and have put around you to make sure that and the organization are making things happen.

Nick (30:47)
I definitely, have to work on how I respond to being around those things. there have been times where I've not put much effort into that, but it's just not for have a hard time being very tolerant, just like being around Some of that's probably just me trying to protect

something that I think is a strength of mine. I think way that I treat my own accountability is a big part of who I am and what helps me version of myself that I wanna be. And I wanna protect that. don't wanna lose that edge. I don't want to...

start to be okay not being accountable. And I know, I think I'm pretty disciplined. I think there's a difference in my mind in being, can hold yourself still be right? I think, and I think that that gets blurred a I

Kelly Berry (31:33)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Nick (31:50)
I can say things to myself that I'm just I came up short on something, I mean, I'm not happy about but I see it as, okay, that one's in the books. You know, now I've got to figure out how to do better with the next I don't need it sugar I don't think that means makes it mean where I'm not being compassionate enough to myself. Right. But I think that there are a lot of people who have a hard time

just the delivery of those messages, either internally by themselves an outside party.

Kelly Berry (32:19)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (32:22)
Yeah, that's, I don't relate very a hard thing for me to relate right? I same to that degree, I don't think.

Kelly Berry (32:28)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah. So a little bit more about accountability and like how that plays a role in your, like what you do personally your development.

Nick (32:45)
Well, so for somebody who's...

growth self -improvement is important to them. I how you treat accountability, like those are the rungs on the ladder.

And, you know, I want to get the most out of each step that I can. And so if know, if I'm accountable to how, to what I've committed to doing and the direction that I'm, that I'm supposed to be

though those rungs are a little further apart and I can push off of that. Like I can take bigger steps from them, right? It gives me a better foundation to take the next step. But if I'm not accountable, it's kind of like, I can't really think of a substance that the rungs would be made of, but they would not, you can push off. They wouldn't be a very good foundation to take a step from. And.

Kelly Berry (33:35)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (33:37)
To me that just undermines the goal of reaching your potential if you're not using points of accountability as stepping stones for growth.

Kelly Berry (33:51)
Mm -hmm. So do you see a pretty big difference in the business owners that you've worked with over the years in how they view accountability progress they make?

Nick (34:04)
I think what you're asking is, do I see that manifest in different ways in them? Yes. But it's probably exactly what you'd expect. There are people who get it and they're probably then they're like further on the the spectrum that I am. And then there are people who.

Kelly Berry (34:10)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Nick (34:24)
it are, you know, you can say that they're not wired for it or they're not, you know.

cut out to be business owners, but it's an accountability thing. They don't see.

Kelly Berry (34:33)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (34:35)
that they should be taking responsibility for the situation. And I mean, it's, yeah, it's like kind of sucks the life out of me to, you see people putting more effort an excuse resolving the situation.

Kelly Berry (34:40)
Mm -hmm.

I know that there are like a number of other things that you do to work on yourself as a leader and how you think. And one of those things is you intentionally seek out like challenging or hard things to do. So tell us a little bit about what that looks like.

Nick (35:15)
I mean, I'm not like an adventure junkie. It's not that kind not like skydiving and stuff, yeah, I just.

Kelly Berry (35:22)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (35:25)
I think that it like that's healthy. I think that's a good thing for me, for me to do. And it a good way for me to be, I like to do things that challenge me. And what that looks like is changed a lot over time. yeah, I think it helps me strengthen like what it looked like my leadership muscles, right? Discipline and accountability and.

Kelly Berry (35:44)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (35:47)
I have to, I need to be that way facets of my for it, for it to really work. And, and if I don't then like, I can't expect to be that way in one area, but then bum in other areas. Right. So if it's, you know, I like, I think you're talking about doing things like playing chess

Kelly Berry (36:05)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Nick (36:12)
memorizing cards or Rubik's Cube, stuff like that. And I mean, I think they're good for your mind, for one. I do a lot of things to try optimize for using my mind. And so doing challenging things like that, I think is an element, but also just the discipline of, this is going to take a long time and it's not going to bear fruit for a while. And it's going to be frustrating before it's rewarding.

And there's a pretty good chance nobody's going to know about it. And I don't that's a pretty pure exercise for me. So, you know, I don't remember how long it took me to do some of those things, to like learn how to do those things. But I know it was very good for me to have to stick with the process of learning it for the time that it took.

And I think it made, you know, some of those things I know were during times where, you know, the rest of my day, it was very long and stressful and like maybe a not very great season in for like business and to add on something have made a commitment to myself that I'm going to learn this thing. And it's going to take, I'm going to this activity every day.

until it's learned and to have to stay disciplined and do it, it was good for me. And I think it gave me energy at times where I probably needed it instead of doing the opposite.

because I think it, you know, it fills voids in time that I would, there are other things that I could do that would be easier, but I just don't think I'm going to get anything out of like watching television. You know? those things, I mean, I like, we've talked about this. I like to do hard things maybe to a fault, you know, with work.

Kelly Berry (38:03)
Yeah.

Nick (38:16)
Like I like to do the hard things I sometimes I'm only doing hard they may look, and I hope that some of them look easy and I hope I do them really well, but that doesn't mean that they're not hard, right? And so I think it's being able to practice that in different areas helps me apply it in all areas.

Kelly Berry (38:32)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I'm gonna talk a little bit more about like what I've seen from my perspective when I watched you do these things and kind of what some of these things look like and, and then I guess the impact that they've had on me. the things that I'm talking about that Nick has done, like he has memorized a deck of cards when he told me he was gonna do that, I had never heard of anybody doing it. I didn't know what it actually meant.

You know, and then I'm like seeing him work on it all the time and he's having me like hold the cards and kind of quiz him and do the stuff. It's just like, what? yeah. Not making a lot of friends sitting there memorizing a deck of cards, but you know, I watched him do it. He decided when he was, he was going to read a hundred he, I think he did like Duolingo every day for two years learning Spanish. He's just the other day we're talking about chess. He plays chess.

Nick (39:17)
working on it's a really cool exercise.

Kelly Berry (39:38)
He has played a game every day for five years. Like the things that he's talking about doing, like they, he absolutely makes them a part of what he's done. You know, the Rubik's cube is another one. You know, I can't remember what your goal was, but like solving it in a minute, a little over a minute or something. 88 seconds. There you go. You know, but these are all things that I just had like a front row seat to watch you work on them. And I think the important part of this story is like how it.

Nick (39:55)
88 seconds.

Kelly Berry (40:06)
how these mindsets, like my mindset and your mindset, because you and I are very different thinkers and we have a very different approach to a lot of things. And in a lot of ways, that's been very good for us. And in a lot of ways, it's been extremely challenging for us. But one of the things, like to watch somebody this, it helped me see that like when somebody is good at something, it does not mean that it is easy for them.

And I mentioned a few podcasts ago, you know, that I had this big shift when I realized that I had a fixed mindset and, you know, started working on having more of a growth mindset. You know, I just thought, like, if something didn't come easy for you, it just must not be something that you're good at or something that you're really meant to be doing. You know, like, I just always thought, well, if they can, if they're really good at that, it must just be really easy for them.

And so I just had this giant disconnect and now looking back, it seems almost like laughable because I was an athlete growing up and I've done a lot of things where I've had to put a lot of effort in to get a certain result. But for some reason, I still just had this belief that easy meant you were good at it and hard just meant it wasn't made for you. And so having this front row seat and seeing you do these things has just shown me that like,

you can go through and like work on something that is really hard till it gets to the point that it looks really easy. But the work that's been done is like something that you just carry forward with you into everything else that you do. You know, it develops that to your point, like the discipline, the perseverance, all of these things. Yes, yes. And I think that this is just like a really, really good lesson or something like a good takeaway. I would like.

Nick (41:49)
resiliency.

Kelly Berry (41:58)
for listeners to get, just stop and think about, are you doing hard things? Are you putting yourself in situations where you're challenging yourself? Or are you choosing the easy way? And it goes back to that, being comfortable or being uncomfortable, but you're just not gonna grow or change or improve if you're always doing the easy

Nick (42:23)
Yeah, that's right. And that's like the, you know, doing things know, working these puzzles or games or whatever. It was even doing them on at the end of the day or, you know, whenever, whatever point during the day on the hardest days, right? Like, but sticking to it is, was my way of like strengthening my resolve and, and resiliency.

because I was gonna need it somewhere at some point in my life. I'm gonna need it to be that way. And that's why, you've seen that it's old. It's this, the Will Smith down a treadmill video. Yeah, I think I'm cut out for that. Like, I can be here for the long haul on I've, mentally, I've worked on making a commitment like that and holding myself accountable to it.

Kelly Berry (42:59)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Nick (43:14)
I don't plan on it being on a treadmill though, but you know that. But yeah, like when I'm committed, I'm in.

Kelly Berry (43:16)
Yeah.

And, you know, we, we talk about that, you know, and just teamwork of our you know, sometimes you'll you know, I'm made for this. And I think what you're saying is like, this is what I've been training for. is the type of situation. know, you've said it a lot, like I'm the person you want on your team when shit hits the fan. You know, I'm the one who can stop and figure things out. And, you know, it's not because.

Nick (43:35)
Mm -hmm.

Kelly Berry (43:48)
That is just easy for you. It's because that's who you have worked to become. Yeah.

Nick (43:53)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. And I've thought about it like that for, I mean, for as long as I can remember. Like I was probably young enough that it may have been weird for somebody to be thinking about like, I'm not exactly sure how I'm going to be in all facets of my life, but I want the people around me to know that when the shit hits the fan, they know where I'm at and they know what they'll get. I've always taken that approach. I'm a, and at other times I may be a little much.

Kelly Berry (44:02)
Yeah.

Nick (44:20)
or still have some edges that need to be polished. But yeah, but that's just kind of like a testimony to the kind of a vision for yourself and thinking about how you want to be. And then over time, being able to shape yourself into that.

Kelly Berry (44:37)
Mm Yeah. love that. I think it's just so important. And, you know, really if you don't have anybody in your showing you that or demonstrating it, and, you know, it just takes a long time to kind of figure it out on your own. For most people, anyway.

Nick (44:55)
Yeah. And I mean, I don't want to make it sound like the work, you know, we'd use the puzzles as an example, because it's a, you know, they're just, I guess, funny things. But like doing the leadership exercises, the stakeholder awareness, I'm sorry, the opportunities and intentions and, you know, recognizing like there's a set of leadership muscles, like, you know, frameworks that it would use to.

Kelly Berry (45:08)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (45:20)
to help shape the way that I'm gonna think about things and I practice doing that when I don't have to, that way it's easier for me when I do have to.

Kelly Berry (45:30)
Mm Yeah, definitely. had a lot of conversations with people about that type of want to be working on these things and practicing these things or exploring these things when you're not under pressure and when not a do or die situation. Some situations are do or die. You want to be able to...

on the work that you've done in those situations rather than that be the period of time that you're trying to figure those things out. Yeah.

Nick (46:02)
Yeah. So you can trust the training.

Kelly Berry (46:05)
Trust the training. Exactly. there's so many more things I want to talk to you about, but we are coming up on time. So I'll pick two more topics. So one I want to talk about, because I think that you have this perspective and maybe like value on time that a lot of people don't think about like you do. And I'd like to introduce some new ways of thinking around this.

Tell me how you view time and of the things that you think are unique about how you look at things like that.

Nick (46:41)
Well, so I may need you to explain that because I don't think they're unique. Like, I don't, that's not how I would label like it's your currency or your asset.

Kelly Berry (46:51)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (46:52)
I just look at it as the thing most important for me to invest. And so I try to approach with that in mind so I can think about, well, how do I get the most from it? And when I have it, what do I want to do with that practice over time has helped me kind of to simplify things down like an equation.

So for example, I could, so I'm gonna go get Vivian from school, gonna bring her And then I've got choices to make from can spend time with her. I can go sit in front of the computer. I could go walk down the street. I could go somewhere and have a drink.

Especially when you throw her in the equation, like it's a lot easier of a decision, but you're making those choices all the time. Like everybody says, well, they want their time to be worth this much. Your time's worth what you spend it if you want to, if you're going to spend it on things that can be done for $10 an hour or, you know, $5 a task or whatever it is, like.

Kelly Berry (47:45)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (48:03)
You're making your time worth And like, I don't know, I couldn't put a price on the time like that I have with Vivian. Like, but that's where I would, I want to invest more time when I get it. So if I know like where else I can either buy time by paying somebody to do something or eliminate the need for something that would occupy my time, then I can turn around and I can give that to her.

regardless of how much I value that. Is that what you're talking about?

Kelly Berry (48:34)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, what you do more so than I've seen from anybody else is that elimination piece. Like, you know, I think a lot of people understand the concept of like, you know, like, I don't want to be mowing my grass on a Saturday morning, so I'm going to pay somebody to do it. Or I don't want to be cleaning my house instead of going to my daughter's soccer game, so I'm going to pay somebody to do it. But I think what you do are like,

the elimination of these points of friction you know, like just they may only take, you know, like a minute here and a minute there, but those minutes add up and like the mental load of it adds up. So that's kind of...

Nick (49:16)
Mm hmm. Yeah, like, there are things that I'm just like, I'm not gonna live this way. Right? We got this rug that gets rolled up in my feet every time I come in the door. I'm gonna stop once and unroll it twice. If I think this is gonna be a thing, that rug is gone. Because I'm not living like that. But it actually, it goes back to me saying like, I've tried to optimize for being able to use my mind.

Kelly Berry (49:23)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Nick (49:46)
Right? So, you know, you could do the math on if I stop for 30 seconds, every time I go through that door and I come through that door five times a day and over a year, that's however long, that's one thing. But also like I want to be able to just walk to where I'm walking to and not have to stop what I'm thinking about, which I believe would be, should be more important and think about big step over the rug. I made it. Good job. Because like,

Kelly Berry (50:14)
Hmm.

Nick (50:16)
I'm choosing where I'm going to spend my mental energy. I can spend it on that rug and that's a pennies activity or a pennies value of thought. Or I can choose to spend it on something that's more important and which should be overall like make it create more value in my life. Now, if I'm choosing like, do I want to think about the next episode of Bluey or step over the road? Like that's different, but.

Kelly Berry (50:35)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Nick (50:46)
the majority of my time passing through that door with that rug is, like I spent, I want my mind to be able to go where it needs to go when I needed to do that. I don't want a disruption like that. And, you know, it's a little thing, but it applies to bigger things. It's vehicle maintenance. You used lawn

Kelly Berry (50:58)
Thank you.

Mm -hmm.

Nick (51:10)
Yeah, I mean, it's everywhere and like doing dishes or laundry, like.

Kelly Berry (51:11)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (51:16)
I'm going to find a way that I know those there are things that have to be done, but I'm not limited to the only two options, me do it or them not being done. And like nobody is. If you, if you say, well, it has to be done. That's all. No, it's not the only way. Like that problem is you're limiting yourself to those options. We can come up with a way to that. You don't have to, I don't want to have to spend X amount of minutes of my life.

Kelly Berry (51:27)
Right. huh.

Nick (51:46)
doing a chore instead of hanging out with Bibian.

Kelly Berry (51:49)
Yeah. Mm know, I've definitely learned a lot from you in regards to that. And I, you know, it's something I still struggle with because I, you know, I don't know why it is, but it is. But that's...

Nick (51:49)
then X can equal whatever you want.

It's because like, if there's a good, it feels good to like check things off. And when you know that they're, it's simple, like there, there are scenarios where that's relaxing for somebody, right? It means something different to them than it does to me. But I also think that you, that can go back to beliefs and values and with some intentional work that could be reframed and they could probably find something that fulfills them in the same way.

Kelly Berry (52:07)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Nick (52:33)
that maybe involves their daughter. I keep using that example, but.

Kelly Berry (52:36)
Right.

Nick (52:38)
But yeah, like there are reasons why like you might be drawn to something like that.

Kelly Berry (52:45)
Yeah, I just think that's another thing that I wanted to bring some awareness to because those are the things I think people just accept and they don't realize like the mental tax that it you know, if it's okay with you, I'm just gonna use some like recent examples of some things that you've done. Like Nick is the king

just, I don't know, like MacGyver or just doing stuff and it all goes back to this, like he doesn't want to have to do things over and over and over. Like he wants a problem solved one time or this thing bothers him every time it happens. And so, you know, the other night at 1130, he's like cutting some felt pads because we have some kitchen cabinets that like make loud noises when they close. And he's like, I just, I don't want to listen to this anymore. You know.

Nick (53:33)
Or you have to sit there and like slowly let the drawer go in so it doesn't sound like a gunshot going off. Right? Like I don't, I'm not going to live like that.

Kelly Berry (53:36)
Yes.

You

Yeah, yeah. You know, it's like we have a system for loading and unloading the dishwasher. Like it's so that like the glasses and the coffee cups and you know, all this, all these things. And it all goes back to being able to, you know, we do have to unload the dishwasher and we do have to load the dishwasher, but can we make those things as simple and as we're not making a bunch of trips across the kitchen or it is. And I just think that's a good thing for people like to stop and think about like, what are these?

these banging cabinets that I'm like living with or the rugs that are curled up or the walking across the kitchen a thousand times. Like what are these, what do these things look like in my life? And can I just spend a couple of minutes and come up with a solution and, you know, just check one thing off the list reduce that mental load. So.

Nick (54:31)
Yeah. Right. And I'm not OCD either. Right. That's not an OCD behavior. That is a, I'm not going to let these things steal time from me that I could spend on something else that's more rewarding.

Kelly Berry (54:35)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Yeah, yep. I just the way that you just like look at every single thing like that I think it's just you know, it's unique and Maybe not maybe unique again is not then the best word but it It is another way that just shows like how intentional and how much work you put into like the way that you are and the way that you want to be and I think that's really

Nick (55:13)
Yeah. I mean, I have no problem with being unique and being different. Like I think you know, so we didn't talk about, but like the first principles thinking, you know, it's, I'm not going to do anything. I'm good to be aware of what we've always done or what, how everybody does it, but I'm not going to, that's not going to be my logic, my reasoning for doing anything. and I think being able to separate those things and start to look at things like what's the problem to be solved.

Kelly Berry (55:22)
Mm -hmm.

Nick (55:41)
versus how do I follow this pattern is like very liberating.