John DiJulius: Elevating Customer and Employee Experience to World-Class Standards

Full Episode Page: John DiJulius: Elevating Customer and Employee Experience to World-Class Standards

Episode Summary: In this episode of The Business Owner’s Journey, Nick Berry interviews John DiJulius, the expert on world-class customer and employee experiences. John shares his journey from starting a salon with his wife to becoming a sought-after speaker and consultant, working with top brands like Starbucks and Chick-fil-A. He discusses the importance of personalized customer service and how to deliver memorable experiences that build loyalty. John also dives into the employee experience revolution, explaining how great leadership can transform workplace culture, reduce turnover, and foster long-term success.

Key Takeaways:

• Personalized customer service can differentiate your business and create a “wow” factor.
• Great companies invest in both customer and employee experiences for lasting impact.
• The frequency of 'Accidental Manager' situations and the problems that arise from them. 
• How leaders must evolve to handle two (2) new challenges: remote work and employee well-being.
• The 3 Objectives of a recruitment process that will attract the right candidates and builds a strong company culture.

Links:

• (NEW!) ‍The Employee Experience Revolution by John DiJulius 
• John DiJulius Official Website
• The DiJulius Group
• John DiJulius on LinkedIn
• John DiJulius tBOJ Guest Profile
• The Employee Experience Executive Academy (Dec '24) 

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Transcript

Nick (00:00)
how did John DiJulius get here?

John DiJulius (00:01)
accident, a couple of different accidents. Went to school for a marketing degree and wanted to be an entrepreneur, didn't know what that was going to be. And opened a little hair salon for my wife, with my wife, for my wife. I wasn't going to be involved. And then we struggled with it. And so I had to get involved.

And all of a sudden between us, she was this great artistic designer, one of the best in Cleveland. And then I brought the marketing and customer service part to it, which was kind of unusual in the early 90s in the salon business. And all of sudden we just started taking off and exploding and opening more locations all in Northeast Ohio.

And then I just thought, all right, we're going to do this for the next 30 years and have a chain of salons, maybe all over the US. And lo and behold, people started asking me to speak because of the noise we were making, the growth we were having. And this was mostly at that time in the mid 90s in Cleveland, where we're from. I said, yes.

you because I thought it was just good marketing, you you'd attend it and then go buy your wife a gift card, right? Yeah, I was like, yeah, I had no plan of, of, of, know, pursuing a career and speaking or anything. And so every time I spoke, two or three entrepreneurs would come up to me after and say, you know, can we hire you to come in and speak to our leaders or our staff? I didn't, I had no idea what they were talking about. I didn't know that was a thing.

So I started doing that a little bit on the side. was like, you know, more of probably of an ego thing than anything. yeah, who knows where I was charted.

Nick (02:03)
What was it that you were saying that they were hearing and thinking like this guy sees something different?

John DiJulius (02:08)
Yeah. Yeah. So it was, it was mostly about our customer service. And so I would talk about how, if you walked into our salon, and this is, was the title of my first book, secret service. And if you walked into our salon, you'd see eight people get in the hair, 10 people get in the haircut, right? And eight of those clients would be in a black John Roberts hair, Ken and Kate two would be in a white haircut and Kate, right?

To you, a client, you would just think we have black and white capes. To anyone on our team, we knew that black capes meant you had been here before and white capes meant you've never been here before. So now anyone on our staff could personalize that experience. If I was walking through the salon and I saw you in a black cape, I'd go up, hey, welcome back, great to see you again. If you're in a white cape, I'd walk up and say, hey, I'm John.

I'm the owner or I'm Suzanne, I'm a nail tech. I hope your first experience here is everything. Can I get you coffee? Do you need a tour? Do you need this? And it would just blow people's minds. Our clients, but, you and then we talk about how that could apply to the printer or this could apply to the restaurant or this could apply to, you know, so little, little things like that just, you know, kind of, you know, blew people's minds. So, so, you know, I started doing that.

a little bit, a few times a year. And then I wrote my first book, Secret Service, that came out in 2003. And up to that point, I was a salon owner that spoke a half a dozen times in Cleveland or in the beauty industry. But then the book came out and haven't been involved in the salons ever since. I went from a salon owner that spoke to a speaker that owns salons.

And then, you then you fast forward whatever it is, 20 some years and we have a big consulting company and we work, you know, and that's all I do. so, yeah, kind of strange accident.

Nick (04:18)
Yeah, I so the, what's the secret is one of the, I'm sorry, I've read what's the secret and secret service and secret service was the first one. And that's the one that kind of got my attention that it was like, there's a different way to look at things than, know, like customer services can be, can look a lot different than just throwing everything you've got at someone.

And I mean, admittedly, I got started out in information product marketing. like it was, you just pile on as much stuff that didn't cost you anything as possible. Right. That was how we over -delivered.

John DiJulius (04:55)
Like what? What do you mean? Give me an example.

Nick (04:58)
it would look like tacking on bonuses. So the way that you would create more value in an experience was to you would be, okay, we'll give this other guy and we'll give another guy and we'll give, we'll, give them this other thing that we created. That's not going to cost us anything extra and is kind of like fringe, even matters to them at the moment. and so you.

John DiJulius (05:10)
Okay, okay.

Yeah. Yeah. They didn't even know, they didn't know they wanted or needed it and yeah.

Nick (05:23)
Right. And we kind of like, so for me, cutting my teeth, was kind of diluted my perception of like, what is really meaningful to a person in during their experience as they're going through it. But to be able to walk up to someone and know that they have or have not experienced this before, and be able to communicate with them without having to like elicit that from them in the moment, like that's really different, right? That's very personal.

John DiJulius (05:38)
Right.

Yeah. Yeah, right. Right. And that's the secret. It was personalize it. And to your point, I don't want that. You know, I'm just going to throw it in the garbage versus, you know, it'd be like giving you, you know, Voss water when you walked in to everyone. And you don't drink sparkling water. Gee, thanks. But, you know, now, but if we pay attention, we know that you like, you know, tea.

Nick (05:53)
That's not me just giving you this extra thing I got.

John DiJulius (06:20)
And we had that in the notes that when you came in and we handed you your T, kind of blow your mind. How did they know that I had T? Did I have it the last time? So yeah, personalization and secret service. Right.

Nick (06:33)
and make it look easy.

awesome that that's the way that you look at things, but how did that happen? Did you have an epiphany or what made you think about customer experience in that way when you did, when nobody else did that I know?

John DiJulius (06:46)
Yeah, survival necessity. So when we open our salon, you know, first line in 1993, like any city, you could throw a rock in any direction and hit, you know, five, you know, other salons. And so we couldn't outspend them. We had the three nos, no money, no customers, no employees.

You know, we couldn't outbuild a nicer facility. We couldn't outmarket them. couldn't, you know, out anything. But what no one did back then, salon industry or literally any, anyone back in the late eighties, early nineties was have a a customer or an employee experience. So that was something we said, all right, was free and we could differentiate. So our, our objective from day one, we have these, when me and my wife,

would go out prior to opening a salon and she was a hairdresser. We'd talk about opening a salon and she would complain about how horrible her salon was. you know, they, they, know, that the owner treated customers. Like if you came in and said, you know, I don't like my haircut. I think this is he throw you out. You know, I mean, it was just like, you know, absurd. They didn't take care of their employees. And she used to, know, she loved the industry, but she'd complain about, know, she'd say, you know,

My best friend Jennifer just quit. I'm like, why did Jennifer quit? She loves doing hair. She's because she needs, she, you know, she has, she just got married. They're having kids. She needs a real job that has benefits and vacations and health insurance. And the salon industry didn't have any of that. So we used to go out and we have this frame today, our business plan and our business plan is so sophisticated. It's four or five cocktail napkins.

from when we were out at bars, because we were in our early 20s. And we said, all right, if we ever open a hair salon, let's treat the customer really, really well. Like not the most sophisticated words, but it was both what we thought. And let's treat the employees really, really well. Let's give them stuff that, you know, and so let's give back to the community. And that was how we got started. So our plan was,

was we wanted to be the best experience in your day. And over 90 % of our clientele back then, it's probably still close, is women, right? Let's be the best experience in her day. And the clarification, which was really key here, and I think this applies to your listeners, that we all get what we could do wrong as entrepreneurs, is we didn't want to be the best experience in

in the salon industry, right? Because how good we were compared to our competitors is kind of irrelevant. If your wife came in today for a 10 o 'clock haircut facial manicure to our salon, she then didn't leave and go to our nearest competitor across the street down the street and compare and say, my God, know, John Roberts blows this away or vice versa. She...

didn't need a hair salon for a few more weeks or a month or whatever. So how good we were compared to our competitor was kind of irrelevant. But where did your wife go before and after the hair salon? She had to run errands, go to the grocery store, go to the dentist, meet her friend for lunch, all those things. And we wanted to, we call it the John Roberts hangover. Any place she went after just paled in comparison.

you, the receptionist at the doctor's office, pissed her off because you didn't look up and greet her and smile and all that. And you looked at your watch and said, your appointment was at 10 o 'clock and it's 10 .03. Right. And that was our thing. And so too many people say, we're the best accounting firm. We're the best printer. I don't use any other accounting firm. So how would I know how you compare to other accountants?

Nick (10:43)
Thank

John DiJulius (11:06)
You know, so, so that was our, that was, it still is today. So that was really, your, your original question is why and how, and it was just because that was the only thing we can compete on now fast forward 31 years later. That's the only thing we still do. And when we, guarantee you, we spend the lot, the least on marketing and advertising, but we get more new clients every month than, than anyone because of.

you know, the wow factor, and then you're going home and talking to your spouse, you're going home and, you know, telling your friends, you got to go to this place. It's really cool.

Nick (11:40)
Yeah. Yeah. So that's, it just kind of hit me when you were talking about that, how tightly aligned it is. with this, the philosophy as a whole, the way, so I'll use the accountant as an example. You you said, someone will say, we're the best accountant locally or whatever, in whatever market. but I already have an accountant. don't need, I'm not worried about the other ones. Like their message is about

finding new blood, right? They're looking for new, they're talking to the person who's not with them yet. They're overlooking the people who are already working with them. It's kind of like the bank that offers a certain perk to new customers.

John DiJulius (12:23)
new, mobile, know, yeah, all these free phone, free this, free that. What about me? I've been with you eight years. screw you. Yeah. Yeah. So A, we wouldn't have to be hunting if we didn't have to replace so many. It's a hole in the boat, right? And if we keep and retain our existing, they're going to produce us more new clients than any advertising ever could.

Nick (12:31)
Right, yeah, like you're here, man.

Yeah.

Yep. Yeah. And, but it doesn't work if you don't commit to it, right? If you're misaligned, if you're saying these things, what you're saying, but then what the message that you put out is still the, new people will treat you better. Yeah. So what has, has anything in your philosophy or your perspective evolved? Like what, what's changed over the years?

John DiJulius (13:06)
Right. Yeah.

I don't think it's evolved. think, so I've written six books. The first five were all customer experience driven. And inside there, we always talked about a chapter dedicated to the employee experience, which was critical. But the pandemic, I think as everyone knows, the great resignation, quiet quitting, mass turnover exodus,

really, in a positive way, put a spotlight on the employee experience and how they were being treated. So my latest book, The Employee Experience Revolution, is obviously dedicated to being better leaders, you know, and great companies help people live extraordinary lives, and their leaders help employees have meaning and purpose.

And, you know, we could say we have two lives, personal and professional, but you can't, you know, untwine them. You know, and one of the leading cause that there's a study in my book that talks about, they ask people what makes a fulfilling life and fulfilling life, not personal, fulfilling life. And what blew my mind, the number one thing was a job they like.

like over relationship, friends, yada, yada. So most of the world can't avoid working in their lifetime. And I think it's on us as leaders to make that a fulfilling experience and meaning and purpose and having them be happy with that. mean, think of, and we probably know people,

It might be our parents, it might be our grandparents, might be that went through their whole life and just hated what they did. And they brought that home as much as they didn't want to. They brought that home and they lived for Fridays and Sunday around 6 p They started getting grumpy. you can't. So I believe, you know, leaders need to help people live.

extraordinary lives. And that starts with liking and feeling good about what they do.

Nick (15:53)
So what are maybe some symptoms if I'm a leader that I think that I'm doing everything right or I think or maybe I just don't feel like this is that big of a concern? Like what are some things that maybe should get my attention?

John DiJulius (16:09)
Well, your turnover rate, right? Now you could sit there and say, yeah, well, in our industry, because we have dock workers or assembly line workers or cashiers or people working at the convenience store or whatever, that's gonna be high turnover to begin with. Well, it doesn't have to be. It doesn't mean they're gonna retire in that position.

But are they happy? Are they engaged? You know, there's obviously a lot of employee engagement, but I like just asking employees three questions. Answer this about your leader, your direct leader. Do they care about the company? Do they care about me? And do they care about my success? And just those three questions tell you everything you need to know. And so making sure that, you know, you're caring, you're recognizing.

you're coaching, you're looking them as a human first and as an employee second.

Nick (17:18)
Do you take the answers to those questions at face value or is there some interpreting that needs to be done?

John DiJulius (17:23)
Well, there's always the, you you can explain, but a lot of people want to be careful because they want it to be anonymous. So let's just say you have 10 direct reports and we're going to have those 10 people fill it out. They're going to fill it out and do a better job if it's anonymous. So what we do is they're all one to five, five being great and one being the worst. And then if the average score of those three questions are below a 4 .5.

You know, we got work to do with you as a leader. and we got us to see where. So yes, he cares about the company. yeah, give him a five, you know, yeah, he's all about the bottom line and, get work faster, harder. but when it came to, he care about me and does he care about my success? Those were, you know, in the threes, you know, that now we can coach you if the company cares to.

Nick (18:19)
So, part of what you guys do then is getting in there and doing the research, doing the interviews, the survey and interviews.

John DiJulius (18:27)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're not interviews. just like, it could be a survey monkey, right? Quarterly. But now we can hold something on you on what your team thinks. Now, if it's a one -off, your average scores will be high and nothing to worry, obviously. But if your average of your 10 people are 3 .6, you got issues. The average of the people that work for you

giving you a relatively low score. If it ain't 4 .5 or higher, it's unacceptable to us.

Nick (19:05)
Yeah, yeah.

John DiJulius (19:06)
Care before coach!

Nick (19:09)
And I'm thinking, I'm just thinking about me or the hypothetical leader who is maybe telling themselves some lies about, you know, why this is okay. Then they decided that, well, I'm going to ask these three questions. I want to be a better listener. So I want to hear what my team is saying. So I'm going to start engaging in conversations and trying to elicit some of this. How do I interpret, am I able to interpret in those?

John DiJulius (19:37)
Here's the biggest challenge with leadership. There was a study that just came out, well, just maybe a year ago, because we got it in the book. So it had to be at least a year ago. I forget the source, Wall Street Journal, Forbes. 82 % of managers today are accidental.

So, accidental looks like this. Nick, employee Nick, George, your boss, left. You have the most seniority. We're gonna promote you to his position. Right. A, we don't even know if Nick wanted it, right? But B, let's say Nick wanted it, right? Besides just maybe the bump in pay. But we didn't prepare him.

Nick (20:13)
Battlefield promotion.

John DiJulius (20:28)
Nick on Friday went out drinking with his coworkers. Monday, he's leading his coworkers and is supposed to hold them accountable. We just set him up for failure. And it's such a reason why so many employees quit. And again, I'm not blaming Nick. I'm blaming the company because we threw Nick in the deep end without teaching him how to swim and expect him to be an Olympic swimmer.

And so, you know, there's, you know, so much to that of preparing leaders, developing leaders, saying, you know, Nick, would you ever, before it happens, Nick, would you ever, you know, you're crushing the job. Would you ever want to be a leader? Yeah. You know, I'd be here. Well, here's some courses. Here's some that I want you to take now. I also, we have some committees I'd love for you to be on.

And now I can see if you're serious. Hey, how's Nick doing on that project? man, he's there, he's into it. Or he was there one time and he hasn't been on it. That tells me Nick's not really serious. He's like, a lot of people are, that's fine. The other thing that is really interesting today about leadership, is for a thousand years,

Leaders never had to worry about two things that they have to today. That no leadership course ever taught, no college degree ever taught. That today, every leader has to have this skill set, and it's really challenging for them. Leading from a distance, right? Virtual, work from home. We never had that before.

So how do I keep my employees engaged to a virtual who I don't see every day, out of sight, out of mind? How do I motivate them? How do I make sure that they're not slipping and that's a huge thing. The second one that we've never ever had to worry about before as leaders is how we have to worry about employees' mental wellbeing. That wasn't something

A, wrong, but 25, 50 years ago, pull up your socks, get your shit together. If I even knew, but no one ever brought. Now employees, now, and these are, I believe silver linings of the pandemic, but now it's okay to say, hey, I'm struggling.

And as leaders, we're supposed to recognize that and coach to that. We are prepared for that, and maybe we shouldn't be. so you have to teach yourself and you have to teach your leadership team what to look for. now, not every, and not necessarily every employee may be struggling, but someone in their family may be.

which means you're struggling. And what resources can we give? And so those are two leadership skills that we have to help ourselves and our leaders become better at.

Nick (24:02)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, talk about recent, I mean, those are things that have changed just in my adult life, right?

John DiJulius (24:17)
and really accelerated coming out of the pandemic.

Nick (24:22)
Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. So is that kind of the focus of the book?

John DiJulius (24:29)
book is the employee experience revolution. so it has, breaks down, you know, one chapter is the power of the purpose. And that's another silver lining of the pandemic is, you know, the importance of finding meaning and value in every employee. And again, I don't care if they're frontline. I don't care if they're garbage collectors. don't care if they're janitors or they're consultants, lawyers, whatever. And,

just the power of purpose. There's a study by the Shell Oil Company, and this will shock you. 89 % of people who retire at 55 are more likely to die within the next 10 years than people that retire at 65. I'm going say that again because it's shocking. 89 % of people who retire at 55 are more likely to die

in the next 10 years than those who retire at 65. Now I repeat that because I want my employees to hear it. Don't retire, you're gonna die. But it just shows you again, part that what we do professionally plays in our lifespan, in our careers. So making sure that that's a part. There's a chapter called, Creating the Recruiting Experience.

and recruiting experience is important today more than it's ever been. And here's why. 10, 15 years ago, if I heard your company was hiring, I'd apply, hope I get the job, right? Today, I'm gonna apply at six different companies, maybe six different industries. Why? Because I know it's an employee market and I'm looking for the best deal.

The best deal is obviously whatever it is to that person. It might be 10 % more in pay, it might be flexibility, work from home, all those different things. And so it's different today. You're not just applying and hoping you get the job. You're leaving the interview with me and you're going to the next one. so our recruitment experience, the three objectives we want.

is one, scare the wrong fit away, right? Like, you know, don't want to waste your time, don't want to waste my time. Number two, find who the potential rock stars are. And number three, make those rock star candidates die, be dying to work for you. That they don't even want to go on the other interviews because they're like, my God, like, you know, if I do go on an other interview,

with another company at PAILS in comparison. So what are we doing to make our recruitment, instead of telling you everything that everyone else tells you, it's a great job. We take care of the customer, we take care of employees. If you do well, get promoted, yada, da, da, da. So there's a recruitment experience. There's an onboarding experience. There's an employee experience. There's developing a future leader. that's, the book covers a lot of things. It's really a leadership book.

Nick (27:48)
Yep. Yeah. Like it's, can tell you, you've got every angle covered, which that's what it takes with people, right? Like, you're not, you're not going to get to leave anything out. I like the, three objectives of the recruitment process in particular, you've always got like a something unique.

that you tactically that you use, like you got anything you can share about how do you do that third objective? How do you get them to die to want to work for you when you find the rock stars?

John DiJulius (28:14)
Yeah. Yeah. So, so first, the first one is I want to scare you away. Right. And how we do that is we're not going to tell you, Nick, and everyone that gets hired here, we sing kumbaya, we hug, we get promoted, we get raises, we get fast track, then we're all going to be vice presidents in the next six months or a year. And I know that that's a broad stroke, but too many times it's too positive. We try to say, Nick, this is fricking hard job.

We expect you to be obsessive about the customer experience. We expect you and we don't, and we tell you this is what you're going to be graded on. This is your retention of new client, your retention of this and you're going to say, dude, you're little crazy. I just wanted to answer some phones or do this. I'm dealing with it. That's fine, Nick. Good luck. you know, cause we don't want in three months, you to be looking for a new job and us to be looking for new people.

Now jump over to, to, give them is, you know, talk about the certainly like, like there are interview processes that scare a lot of people away and we want it to, but the ones that doesn't scare now you're like, know. Like everything you're telling me, I know because my brother worked here. have friends work here. I've been a customer.

Nick (29:28)
They've got some.

John DiJulius (29:35)
This is why I want to work here is how good you are customer experience or you're dedicated, blah, blah, blah. So now we're going to say, Nick, I want to reduce you to Eric. Eric started in the position you're applying for 16 years ago, frontline, yada, yada, yada. Today, Eric is a managing partner, right? So I want you to see that this ain't a temporary transitional job until you get a better, this could lead to something.

You know, we have several Eric stories. On the flip side, I want to tell you about, you know, Denise. Denise started in a job you had, and we found out that her five -year goal was not to be here, that she wanted to be doing this in a completely different industry and blah, blah. And you know what? We helped her get there. One, working here was a great resume builder. Two, I actually introduced her

to the company she's working for and recommended her. It kind of shows you two -play. There's a career path, but it also, not everyone's going to retire from us. And you don't have to, you know, it's not just about what's in the best interest of the company. If this isn't what you want to do, but while you're here, I want you to bust your ass and be what the company expects, but.

I'm also gonna, I'm fine with helping you, A, build the qualities and resumes to get you to where you wanna be. And if that's somewhere else, we'll help you. That is just as important. That story going viral is just as important as the Eric story who is a part owner. So things like that.

Nick (31:21)
Yep. I could totally see that being even more valuable and with a lot of people because like that's truly walk in the walk. Like you, you're telling me that you care about my best interest, but if you're willing to like invest in me, no, and then let me go because of it. that, know, that's evidence right there. That that's a tougher thing to do on your part.

John DiJulius (31:25)
It is!

Yeah. Two more things I'll share real quick on this is we want to train the whole person, not just what's going to make Nick more productive, more efficient and more profitable for the company. And so one of things we offer our employees is we call it the five F's and the five F's is

correlates with most people's New Year's resolutions. Fitness, family, faith, fun, and I'm forgetting the fifth one, but you get it, right? So we'll just say, by the way, next Tuesday, we have someone come into our company meeting that's going to talk about money management or how to buy your first house or

You know this and or we have a zoom call or we have a book club about better parenting or relate. If you want to be great, we bring in the resource. But those are the things that people brag about more than, you know, the the hard the harder benefits. And then the last thing I want to talk about is we kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier is we do an exercise with all our employees.

kind of the five year, 10 year goal is, you know, it's called Iki guy. Have you ever heard of Iki guy?

Nick (33:17)
only through following some of your stuff.

John DiJulius (33:19)
Okay, it's the Japanese meaning for finding your calling in life. And four things have to intersect for you to find your Iki guy. Number one, what are you passionate about? What's gonna get you out of bed in the morning? But a lot of people, you like, you might like to play golf, right? Well, but you can't make money.

Right? You can't be in the top 3%. So do you know what a passion is that you can't be great at? Do know what that's called? A hobby. Right? Okay. So the, the second error section has to be something you can be in the top 3 % of. Right? Now, do you know what something you could be great at, but you're not passionate about is called?

Nick (33:49)
Right now.

I'll be, yeah.

John DiJulius (34:11)
a job. Right? You know, I'm an accountant. I hate it. You know, I'm a good accountant, but you know, I wake up every day and say in 18 more years and two days, I could retire. Right? All right. So the four things, something you're you could be you're really passionate about something you could be in the top 3 % at. Third one is something that someone's willing to pay you a good sum of money for. But the fourth one is really important.

Nick (34:11)
No, there you go.

John DiJulius (34:41)
is it adds a positive impact on society. So we want to help people find their Ikigai. A lot of times we realize, all right, Nick, it's not what you're doing today for us, but we do have that. We're a big company. We have different subsidiaries. We can move you from this to this and yeah, that's perfect. I'm glad you told me because we were just about to go out and start interviewing for that.

Nick (34:50)
Mm -hmm.

John DiJulius (35:11)
You'd be great. You're a great employee. We'll get you in that. A lot of times it's not with us. That's okay too. But that's when they're leaving tomorrow. And the real value of that is whether you work here for two years or 20 years, you're gonna like working here because again, it's about you and not just about what you could do for us.

Nick (35:20)
Yeah.

So Lindsay's mentioned that you have a new academy rolling out. Is the new academy based off of this

John DiJulius (35:39)
had the customer experience executive academy for 10 12 years and that's You know kind of a master's degree in customer experience. You're gonna be a chief experience officer run that that Is a year -long part -time course where people come to Cleveland every quarter for three days for four quarters now starting in December where the exea the

Employee Experience Executive Academy. Same thing for leaders. It's a year long. They come to Cleveland three days every quarter for a year. And that prepares them on all this stuff that we're talking about to be great leaders.

Nick (36:24)
Yeah, that's awesome. I love it. John, I really appreciate your taking the time. I love your work. I I've told you that you made your book made a big impact on me quite a while ago. thank you for spending the time and keep doing what you're doing, man. You are you're making us all better.

John DiJulius (36:30)
Thanks, Nick.

much.

Thank you. My pleasure, Nick. Thanks for having me.